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02 October 2011
Slaid Cleaves puts him right up there with Steve Earle, Springsteen and Woody Guthrie. Mary Gauthier hopes he sells a million copies and Americana UK's own Jeremy Searle called his new album a "Masterful downbeat set from blue-collar chronicler par excellence". But asked if he ever dreams of a little more fame and fortune, the man himself simply says that "it would be wonderful to have a day now and then when I didn't have to decide between a decent hotel and a decent dinner." So to use one of music writing's biggest clichés, Rod Picott is criminally overlooked, despite the fact that his latest album, Welding Burns, is an obvious candidate for this year's best. As he sets off for another tour of the UK, starting October 11th at The Duchess in York, Americana UK speaks to our favorite real deal singer about crooked politicians, getting the hell out of Nashville and, of course, Lady Gaga's meat dress.
Interview by Soren McGuire
Photo by Joshua Black Wilkins
Hi Rod. I’m going to start off with the weird question that’s going to make you all uncomfortable, but no matter where I look, people are saying nice things about you. Mary Gauthier hopes you sell a million copies, and Slaid Cleaves has you up there with Woody Guthrie. Do you ever have moments out there on the road where you – despite the long drives, the cheap motel rooms and undrinkable truck stop coffee - actually allow yourself to think of yourself as this very, very, very good songwriter who’s destined for far bigger audiences?
Yes. Like most artists there are days when I'm sick of myself and feel disillusioned and feel like I haven't written anything worth a damn. Other days I wonder where my tour bus is and why Rolling Stone hasn't called. I've worked very, very hard at my craft. It's a bit of a mystery why some acts find a bigger audience and some don't. Most of the time I just keep my head down and move forward but there are moments when I think I've written some damn good songs. There aren't a lot of songwriters out there who do what I do.
You’re originally from Maine, but since the mid-90’s, you’ve been based in Nashville, where this album was recorded. I know there are many different sides to that city, but what does it offer to you as an artist? To which do you owe the biggest part of your success? Lower Broadway? Music Row? East Nashville?
It's a misunderstood profession in a way and a misunderstood city. The thing that Nashville has in spades is talent. There are so many talented people here it's amazing. To be honest though the smartest thing I ever did and the decision I made that gave me an audience and some respect from my peers was to ignore Nashville. It's counter intuitive but I realized a long time ago there were lots of songwriters clustering together here and writing different versions of the same song and chasing the same sounds. The hippest band in Nashville can't drive an hour away and draw flies. I made a decision I would rather play to 20 people in every city than to worry myself with what was happening in Nashville. It was a decision made on instinct and it was difficult to pull away from the community here in some ways but it worked. The one thing I can say that's been a huge help being in Nashville is having so many smart, talented people to draw from in making the records...
But was Nashville ever really an option? You mention that the smartest thing you ever did was to ignore it, but have you ever found yourself looking at all the big shiny hats and tourbusses rolling down Music Row and thinking "I could have gone down that route, made a ton of money and joined the Grand Ol' Opry? Respect is good, and you've made some of the finest records I've ever heard, but the fact that I think an album like "Stray Dogs" is up there with the greatest, doesn't really get your face on the side of a tourbus?
What I meant was that I started to ignore the scene in Nashville. I started following my gut and writing what I was genuinely interested in instead of watching what other folks were doing, Following trends is very common in Nashville. The stakes are high. People move here and become wealthy and successful so there is that sweet seductive scent in the air here but when I started to ignore the scene here I found my voice as a writer and I started to find an audience as well. It's true I suppose I could have gone the Music Row route but I just wasn't built that way. A leopard has to be a leopard and there's no gazelle running from a frog. You are what you are....
The timing of Welding Burns is pretty interesting. From a European perspective, it seems like you have the left wing and the right wing fighting over the American middle class, both claiming ownership over this blue-collar class at the same time. What’s the story of America today being told on this record?
I'm not a political animal by nature. It's depressing how things have disintegrated here in the States. The posturing and lack of honesty is not new but the acting skills of the politicians have gotten better and we're suffering for it. The story I'm telling is just the individual story. I've found it poignant and moving to see people losing their way of life. There are people who worked hard their entire lives and fought for a place for themselves in the world that are having all their work pulled out from underneath them. I'm not motivated my politics. People choose their politics based on their own fears and how they want to see themselves. I'm motivated by individuals by people's stories. I try to think of songwriting like a reporter-just tell the truth and keep yourself out of the story. It's more powerful that way...
I might be over-analyzing things here, but won't you inevitably at one point "become" the stories, lives and fates you sing? Meaning, a lot of people will probably look at you as a "blue collar" singer. Are you okay with that? Do you fit in that box?
I struggled with writing about my background for along time. It was a real twist in my spine. You want to be something other than what you are that you ignore the very power that the thing you are gives you. We live in a time when people define things in neat little categories so they will drop me in that blue collar box. I don't really like being labeled the blue collar guy but I will say that if I'm going to have to be that guy I'll write the best damn songs about that life you've ever heard because I know what that life is. I'm not trying to romanticize it like a lot of singers {and we know who they are} I know the difference between what that life seems like and what it is and those are two very different songs.
Where do you find the inspiration for these songs? Your own background? The newspaper classifieds? Obituaries? Life?
Yes, yes and yes. I think songs are the at their most potent when something of it comes from your own life or someone around you. For some reason I've never struggled for concepts for writing. There might come a day when I do struggle but there's so much going on around us all the time. I'm inspired by the small human stories and they are everywhere. I've used my own life quite a bit with Welding Burns but I'm not saying which songs.
This question is dumb, I know. But do you ever find yourself wishing you could just write a big, stupid pop song, and for once not having to carry the weight of the world on your guitar strap?
Oh sure. What I really think though is "why doesn't one of those big stupid pop singers cut one of my songs?" Same points it would be amazing to be able to breath a little easier. It would be wonderful to have a day now and then when I didn't have to decide between a decent hotel and a decent dinner. I'm drawn to writing the way I write and playing the way I play. Like anyone obsessed with some form of art I'm just drawn to doing it this way. Maybe I need some shiny pants. Does that help you write a pop song?
Well, that, a dress made out of raw meat. But allow me to ask you this then - do you ever tremble when it comes to keeping your faith in your chosen path? Do you ever get so tired of having to choose between a decent hotel and a decent dinner that not even a room full of devoted fans and some nice words from your peers is enough to keep you going?
Yes. That day comes around now and then. I try to remind myself that there are a lot of hard working talented people who wish they were in my boots. I've played shows with Alison Krauss, I wrote the most played song on Americana radio for two years, I've been on television a few times, had a song in a movie; it's not a bad life I have....the bus I don't need but some health insurance would be nice...a meat dress?
You’ve been making records for ten years now. Between Tiger Tom Dixon’s Blues and Welding Burns, what do you think you’ve learned, not only about making records, but also about your self?
Loads my friend...loads. Some things I'd never talk about but most of has to do with honesty. Just tell the truth and try to be at the center of who you are as much as possible is what I tell myself these days. The songs that move me are invariably the same songs that move my audience. You have to trust your spine as a writer. You have to believe it or it won't work and it's a waste of your time.
Please tell me about your relationship with Slaid Cleaves. You grew up together in Maine. Wherein lies the greater understanding and connection that the two of you must share?
We've known each other since we were 8 years old. We grew up steeped in the same music and struggle with identity in a very small town. We were both slightly outcast in different ways. Neither one of us could play basketball or any other sport for that matter. We've had some very different struggles as well but those childhood identity issues and an instinctive love of art in an environment that not only didn't appreciate art but actively denigrated it bonded us in a real and seemingly lasting way. It's a bit like brothers as well. We don't talk much because we don't need to. We just pick up where we left off.
You’ve both spent time busking. Not many professional musicians have that background these days. What do you think it did for you, being out there on the street?
Busking gives you nerve and allows you to try on different voices as a singer. You can just walk around the corner and try out your Otis Redding voice. It's not great fun but it's character building I think.
Over the years, Slaid has recorded quite a few of your songs. Do you ever have these moments where you think, ”man, he nailed ”Bring It On” or ”well, he’s made a mess out of ”Broke Down”? What’s the secret behind having your own songs covered by other artists?
The secret to having songs covered by other artists is to write with someone who is as good as you but doesn't write much. It's a natural combination because Slaid has a real gift for melody and I have very strong sense of language and how people use it. I'm constantly looking at a lyric for language problems when we write I don't want a character saying something he wouldn't say. We had an interesting problem with one of the songs on the new cd. Slaid has always recorded his version of our co-writes first so he was struggling with my version of Welding Burns. I had to explain that it's because I found my mark with it, not his. It was a new experience for him being on that side of it but yes I've struggled with most of his versions of our songs. That's why I keep putting out my own versions! The exception would be Sinner's Prayer. He knocked that one out.
One thing I've noticed is that the two of you often choose completely different angles when it comes to the songs you either cover or co-write. Take "Not Going Down" as an example. Slaid records it in an almost uplifting way, but your version just breaks my heart. You do "Bring It On" in a much darker than Slaid's version. I mean, the man wrote a song with the words "Everything you love will be taken away" and the melody STILL made me smile! Are you fundamentally a darker soul than Slaid?
I would say yes to that I suppose. Slaid is an intellectual. He's a very bright guy. He's not driven by emotion and he's not fond of confrontation. I'm the other kind of guy. I'm running more on instinct than he is I suppose. We come from the same town but we come from very different family backgrounds. Slaid's father was a psychologist and his mother came from New York intellectuals. Slaid's mother used to go to jazz clubs as a teenager. They were like the Kennedy's of our little town. The mayor used to go to their house for dinner. My father was a welder and had to go back to school to learn to read when I was a kid to get into the welding program. He had dropped out of school when he was about 15 but he said he hadn't gone much after 12. My mother ironed peoples clothes. They scrapped hard to get us out of the project. Growing up with that sense of desperation around you stays with you. They did well. They scrapped and fought to make some kind of life for us but they started way way down the ladder so there was a sense of darkness that gets passed along I suppose. Slaid's my favorite co-writer by a long mile. We just bring different tools to the job. He's got a really great compass to get us where we need to go and I've got a sharp ax to cut down anything that gets in our way. Slaid sings "Not Going Down" as a story. I sing it to remind myself. Neither way is better. You just have to sing it like you feel it.
You’ll be in the UK from the 11th, and you have a very devoted fan base over here. Do you think of the UK as your second home? What is it about us that attracts you? The food? The weather?
I love that people listen so closely in the UK. There are folks who will come to several shows on a tour and people who have come out at least once on every single tour. I'm moved by the level of support and the friendships i've made there. There's something strangely comforting about the grey skies and the toughness of the people in the UK that reminds me of home. I don't think there is a tougher group of people on the planet than the british working class. Something there just reminds me of home in a way that's hard to explain. Also, the Nazma in Farnham Common just north of Slough is worth the flight.
Rod Picott's amazing Welding Burns is out now on Welding Rod Music. We strongly encourage you to see one of his shows. Dates can be found at Rodpicott.com